Question:

Foreign Minister, while in Berlin, President Zelensky described the destruction of the electricity supply by Russia and pleaded for more air defence systems. Can Ukraine still win this war?

Annalena Baerbock:

Yes. And to lose it would be fatal – both for a free Ukraine and for a free Europe. The people are experiencing on a daily basis the brutality of Putin’s attacks and destruction. Just imagine lying in hospital when suddenly the electricity goes off because a power plant has been hit. Or it’s minus 15 degrees and you have absolutely no access to water and heating. That is why we urgently need more support, right now. Because at the moment, Ukraine is not able to simultaneously protect both its cities and its critical infrastructure. That is why I am urgently appealing to all partners throughout the world to supply additional air defence systems. Italy generously announced in Berlin that it would provide another system.

Question:

Germany could also do more, by supplying the Taurus cruise missile, for instance.

Annalena Baerbock:

Russia’s advance hinges on the supply lines. We have seen how important long-range systems and cruise missiles from the United States, France and the United Kingdom are. They made it possible to push back the Russian warships in the Black Sea, for example, opening up the grain corridor that is so vital for global supply.

Question:

France’s President Macron says that nothing should be ruled out when it comes to supporting Ukraine. Do you agree with him?

Annalena Baerbock:

When I was in Bucha following the terrible crimes committed against the civilian population, I thought: that could be us. We now need to do everything we can. At the same time, it is clear that we also have a responsibility to ensure that we are not drawn into this war. That is why we have not written and are not writing any blank cheques. Ukraine needs ongoing, more intensive support. It is absolutely in our own interests to provide this support. Our peace here in Europe is at stake. However – and here I agree with the French President – we should not always and everywhere be discussing the best way for Ukraine to defend itself. That only benefits one side: the Russian aggressor.

Question:

What consequences should Europe expect if stabilising the situation proves impossible?

Annalena Baerbock:

If Ukraine is no longer in a position to defend itself – and I’m saying this particularly to those who are against providing support – many more millions of people will be forced to flee. After all, who would choose to live amid torture and occupation? The latest reports of rapes in occupied areas and children being kidnapped show that people ought to be prepared for the worst.

Question:

The AfD (Alternative for Germany) and the BSW (Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance) are nonetheless calling for the funds for Ukraine to be spent here in Germany. What is your response to that?

Annalena Baerbock:

I regard it as our duty to support the people in Ukraine. But even if you don’t care about that, if we do not continue to support Ukraine, we risk seeing Putin’s troops on the Polish border. Then war would very quickly be in EU and NATO territory. The cost incurred if we had to defend our freedom and security ourselves can hardly be measured. At the end of the day, support for Ukraine also keeps the war away from us.

Question:

It is suspected that the Kremlin is paying German politicians, driving forward interference campaigns and even sabotage operations. Isn’t the conflict already here?

Annalena Baerbock:

For too long we were naive, we turned a blind eye to Putin’s brutality. The Kremlin is conducting destabilisation campaigns throughout Europe – through cyber attacks, through political assassinations. Putin’s warfare is also directed against us. He wants to destroy the peaceful order in Europe and thereby in as many liberal democracies as possible. To achieve this, he has henchmen on the far right and far left in our parliaments who parrot his propaganda.

Question:

Are you concerned that interference campaigns could also target the 2025 Bundestag elections?

Annalena Baerbock:

Yes. During the last Bundestag elections, as a Chancellor candidate I had first-hand experience of the power wielded by Russian fake news because of my critical stance on Nord Stream 2. Other European countries are also experiencing this, which is why we are currently strengthening our cooperation on countering disinformation together with Poland and France. With our National Security Strategy, which was published one year ago for the Federal Government under the lead responsibility of the Federal Foreign Office, we are placing a much sharper joint focus on internal and external security.

[…]

Question:

Many people in your party found your support for tougher EU asylum regulations disconcerting. Do you understand their disappointment?

Annalena Baerbock:

Where the Greens and where I stand on the issue of human rights is clear. And at the same time, our country is a country of immigration. That presents challenges. If we don’t actively confront this issue, others will fill the gap.

Question:

The Chancellor also wants to deport people to Afghanistan and Syria in cases where serious crimes have been committed. Do you support that move?

Annalena Baerbock:

Anyone who sees how the Mannheim attacker stabbed a policeman, or who recalls the group rape of a 14-year-old, has to conclude that those seeking protection in our liberal democracy lose their right to that protection if they want to destroy it. Such serious offenders therefore have no place in our country once they have served their sentence. At the same time, implementing this when perpetrators come from countries with terrorist regimes is anything but trivial. We can see this in other European countries, too. Like them, we should ask ourselves at national and European level to what extent we can consider introducing extended procedures for detention pending deportation or preventive custody in the case of such serious offenders.

[…]

Question:

You are on the receiving end of protests about the war in the Gaza Strip. Why is your appeal for people to see the suffering on both sides increasingly falling on deaf ears?

Annalena Baerbock:

7 October brought immeasurable suffering to the people in Israel. And to the people in Gaza. I can understand how disturbing this is. And time and again I, too, could become disheartened when I see those terrible images of children in Gaza. Or when I talk to relatives of the more than 100 Israeli hostages still missing. But not giving up is precisely what my job is all about. That means even greater diplomatic efforts to keep on seeing both sides. As distant as the goal may seem, Palestinians will only be able to live secure and self-determined lives if Israel is secure. And Israelis will only be able to live in security in the long term if Palestinians can live in security in their own state.

Question:

The United Nations accuses Israel of war crimes. Was it a mistake not to criticise Israel’s methods of warfare in the Gaza Strip earlier and more clearly?

Annalena Baerbock:

I am driven by our responsibility for Israel’s security and our responsibility for international humanitarian law. Sometimes progress can only be made by discussing issues behind closed doors. Sometimes the issues have to be addressed publicly. The objective is always the same: how can the suffering of two million Palestinians be ended, how can Hamas’ hostages be freed? We have to be realistic about what we ourselves can do: Sometimes that means taking small steps and working for months to bring children in an SOS Children’s Village in Gaza to safety. Or to fight for each individual truck with humanitarian goods trying to reach the people in Gaza. That is my task as long as it is unfortunately not possible to implement the ceasefire and a long-term peace plan, which we are working on with Arab partners, the Americans and the British.

Question:

One of the things under discussion is an international force in the Gaza Strip – is Germany’s involvement conceivable?

Annalena Baerbock:

All of us working towards a peace plan are driven by the question: how can we ensure that 7 October is never repeated? For this we need security guarantees, not only for Israel but also for the people in Gaza who are themselves suffering at the hands of the Hamas terrorists. That is why, like the United States and Arab states, we have stressed that we, too, bear responsibility for an international security guarantee. At the moment concrete participation is not yet up for debate. But of course it’s not enough to say that others should take care of it.

Interview: Markus Baiser and Paul-Anton Krüger

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